Bvio.com talk:What is an article
Moved from Talk:Main Page
OK now that the new wording is in place on the Main Page that states; "Anyone, including you, can edit any article right now, without even having to log in.", I think it is now necessary for us to write down our definition of just what a Wikipedia article is (some people may be confused with the "edit any article" statement when the main page and several policy pages are clearly read-only by non-admins). Here is a rough sketch of what I feel should be in such a definition;
- There are many pages in Wikipedia, far more pages than we actually consider to be articles. For calculating our site statistics and for regular conversation we have a more or less specific definition of what constitutes an article.
- A Wikipedia article can be defined as a page in the database that either has encyclopedic or almanac-like information on it ("almanac-like" being; lists, timelines or charts).
- This does not include any pages in any specified namespace such as:
- All these specified namespaces also have a yellowish background color to distinguish them from pages in the article namespace which have white backgrounds.
- However there are still some non-articles in the article namespace; most notably:
- It should be noted that our naming conventions only cover what articles should be named. Therefore it is perfectly fine to use whatever capitalization, pluralization or transliteration you like for your user page and even pages in the other namespaces (except special, which can only be created by developers).
- The Main Page and a few of the most important policy pages in the Wikipedia: namespace (such as Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines) are protected, because experience has shown that the main page is a major target for vandals and Wikipedia Policy has to be agreeded to by consensus before being changed. But every article and the vast majority of non-article pages can be edited by any user, including you right now!
Please go ahead and edit the above or leave suggestions below. As soon statement is agreed to I plan on placing it in Wikipedia:What is a Wikipedia article? or something similar and then sublink that to the word "article" in the intro message on the front page. --mav
Great, and I've made what I hope are improvements. (I also indented it for readability, but of course the final version won't have that.) I suggest putting it in Wikipedia:What is an article; the lack of a question mark or a repetition of "Wikipedia" will make linking easier. I've hedged a bit on the precise definition of "stub", because my impression is that the comma guideline is just an approximation for purposes of automatic detection (as I wrote), but only human judgement can tell if something is really a stub. However unlikely, a long and substantive article might consist entirely of short declarative sentences and no commas; now that I think of it, we probably have some list pages that fall into this category. OTOH, a page whose only content is a repetition of the title (the ultimate stub) will still have a comma in it if the title does. — Toby 21:50 Aug 12, 2002 (PDT)
- Great! I really like your improvements, but I did tweak the reason why certain pages are protected; No Admin has to ask permission to make minor changes and copyedits to any protected page. Any major reorg or refactoring should be announced (a major reorg of the Main Page would need to be agreeded to before hand though). The only time permission and/or consensus is needed is if there will be any change in the meaning of any policy page. --mav
End moved talk
Methinks it would be useful to briefly explain what the namespaces are for, in stead of only mentioning them with an example. Or will it get too lengthy then? Jeronimo
- Good idea - although that should be a very brief explaination since namespaces have their own FAQ page. --mav
- Last time I checked, yes. This is yet another feature request I have in my head -- trouble is that so many of the requests are already from me. Fixing this souldn't be hard though. --mav
OK, somebody has to say this: The fact that we are patting ourselves on the back for intentionally undercounting our articles is just plain silly. I just now went and looked under "short pages" at all 28 pages with exactly 100 bytes, and 13 of them contained a comma. Not a single one of them deserves to be called an article, but almost half are counted. Next I looked at all 33 pages with exactly 200 bytes, and 27 of those contained a comma. A few of them (not eighty percent!) might be considered articles under an extremely lenient definition of article, but does anyone outside of Wikipedia consider a single, brief paragraph to be an article? Are ANY of Brittanica's articles under 500 bytes?
I estimate our median article size as 1000 bytes, because that's the size of our 18943rd longest page according to long pages. (18943 would be the median of 37886 total articles.) To my mind, a conservative count of articles would place an 1000-byte minimum, rather than a 1000-byte median, which would trim our total article count in half. But no matter how we count articles, let us at least prominently post the median size of the articles which are included in the count. And please, please don't call the count "unimpeachable". (For refernence, my little tirade (including this sentence) is 1367 bytes long, i.e. rather longer than our median article.)
--Fritzlein 02:55 Aug 17, 2002 (PDT)
Print encyclopedia's have many very short articles that are little more than definitions. I do agree that our automatic article count is not as conservative as it should be though. It should, for example, search for and exclude from the count any page that has the word "disambiguation" in the text or title and do some other things to exclude pages that are probably better described as definitions of encyclopedia topics and not encyclopedia articles (that is, there needs to be better stub detection). --mav
(Of course, mav changes it after saying this.) Yeah, I think that it's fine, although it'd be nice to write the pages that it links to too. That shouldn't stop us from linking to it, however. — Toby 15:30 Aug 21, 2002 (PDT)
- Coolness - now all we need is a small entry in the actual FAQ about this with a brief answer. I will go ahead link it from the Main Page. --mav
Is it just me or has the number of articles dropped? Lir 23:36 Nov 14, 2002 (UTC)
- No. It has been at 90679 since Monday. --mav
I prefer the byte-based distinction of stub/article. I'm working on Japanese Wiki, and Japanese writing can go on in a great length without any commas, partly because we have a similar but different Japanese sign for that: "�A"
I imagine this situation is not unique to Japanese language.
Tomos 00:35 Feb 3, 2003 (UTC)
ZONGULDAK regional info @ history in English
You can use text on singlix web site, zonguldak web pages...
I am the owner of these web pages...
INFO page text taken from www.voyagerbook.com but, recently i have updated it at singlix web site.
HISTORY is written by me, directly...
There are not any copyrights on these pages... (www.voyagerbook.com Zonguldak page is not orginal source of information about Zonguldak. All text is compilation/adaption from official turkish state/tourism documents.)
USE THE TEXT of Following web pages...
Regards... Erdogan Tan
Problem with Article Count / Article Description
The definition on an article, at Wikipedia:What is an article is reached by clicking onto the word article by the count of articles on the main page. It launches straight into an explanation of what an article is & is not.
However it is not until you get lower down the page that you discover that the published count is not the same as the definition given above: irrespective of the discussion over number of bytes, commas and links, the count does count stubs which are clearly marked in the text as stubs by msg:stub.
I'd earnestly suggest we should seek a means of getting a count which excludes stubs, even if the expedite way to do this is to parse a page as it is saved for the presence of the msg:stub (or a msg:stublist) which sets a flag that can be used by the counting software. Discuss. --Tagishsimon 00:08, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)